THE SALEM COMMISSION ON DISABILITIES
November 16, 2010
SATV, Derby St.
Introductions
David Tracht: Mike Taylor is not here—he may have not been able to get away from hospital duties. Jean Harrison is ill. I want to thank David Moisan for televising the meeting on SATV—we would not have the reach we have without it.
Present: David Tracht, David Moisan, Jean Levesque, Jim Nowlan, Andrew J. LaPointe, Charlie Reardon, Debra Lobsitz, Jack Harris, Lisa Camaratta, Human Resources Coordinator, Salem, Tom St. Pierre, Building Inspector.
David Tracht: Before we introduce Tom St. Pierre, the Commission has done a terrific job removing barriers to our residents of Salem, as well as our visitors. We continue to look for issues that we need to look at that affect access. That’s what we’ve been about and we have done a great job at it.
Guest speaker:~ Tom St. Pierre, Salem Building Inspector
David Tracht: We’re happy to have Tom St. Pierre come in to see us today. In a brief nutshell, or maybe you can’t do it briefly, I’d like to have Tom briefly describe what the building inspector does and how it relates to the Commission on Disabilities.
Tom St. Pierre: No, I should be able to describe it quickly. [laughs] We enforce the DMRs, the regulations of the Mass Architectural Access Board. Many people think of them as ADA regulations but it is the MAAB that sets the regulations that we follow for new construction and for renovation.
Part of our permit review process is determining whether a project triggers requirements for access. For example, a front entrance might need to be made accessible. We review plans from the contractors. We field complaints, not that often, it’s usually the Commission who brings this to our attention. We have many different aspects to look at, fire safety and such, but access is a very important part of our work.
David Tracht: How well are you doing with the MAAB?
Tom: We get along great. We deal with Tom Hopkins and it’s been a very good relationship. We are proactive with them—we notified them about the Salem Ferry situation as soon as we were aware of it. We really care about that.
Jack Harris: The key to the job as been how well you deal with other city departments. There are other cities that have not done as well in that regard.
David Martel: The Mayor’s office has been working to get a lot of curb cuts fixed.
Jack Harris: It’s not that there are no politics—there are—but the city’s Inspection Dept. has far exceeded what is normally expected. And Tom has a personal connection to the disabled community.
Tom: One of our important functions is feedback. We have a very busy office and need feedback to know when we’ve dropped the ball.
Tom: We love getting feedback. We’re not perfect. We
Tom: In the process of renovating old buildings, we are often in the position of having to deny a permit, or submit a variance to the MAAB. In the 12 years I have been here, the process has been considerably streamlined thanks to the Commission. Architects used to be afraid to go down to Boston for a hearing. But the MAAB is a reasonable board, and the architects know it. Old buildings have needed some really inventive solutions.
Andy LaPointe: As long as they make sense. In 2005, the city proposed a really weird solution to an access problem.
Jack Harris: One time, on Derby St., the slopes on the curb cuts on the sidewalks were wrong. The city was made to fix the problem or face a daily fine ($1,000/day) for noncompliance. The city has gotten right on it. Since then, the Commission has worked more closely with the city
David Tracht: We’re working together and it works out more time than not. About the waterfront, you mentioned the Commission might have to come in regards to transportation ] we are concerned about the new pier work at Blaney St.
Tom: Waterfront work is the It’s our understanding that the existing pier for the Ferry will be in use while a new pier is constructed. All of our eyes are on this project. It will affect us for years to come and we have all eyes on this project.
Jack: As some are aware, people are leaving hints that Salem Power Station might not be there in the future. In any project that might come up in redevelopment there, access is very important and we need to look at it.
Tom: Beth Rennard has been involved in a project at Winter Island. We are looking at an accessible dock for programs like Sail Salem. It sounds like a scary thing, moving people in wheelchairs to a boat, but it would be a good project. We have already approached the power plant [Dominion] and they have had some legal liability concerns, but we will continue to work on this.
Andy: As long as I can just stand and watch!
Tom: I think that would be very exciting!
David Martel: The Paralympic yachtswoman in Marblehead would be interested—she’s been talking with the Commission about that.
Tom: It would be great to have her involved in the design. We’d need to have it protected from vandalism, and weather. But we would want this to be available for all.
Jean: Do you remember the problems we’ve had with Swampscott Rd. and Marlborough Rd. about sidewalks not being built correctly and poles in the middle of sidewalks. I’ve been looking at Loring Ave, and there are places where a wheelchair cannot pass. I know you’ve explained this to me personally.
Tom: You’ve come across the problem of MassHighway vs. Everyone Else. They do not appear to follow the same regulations as the rest of the state. I have no leverage there. You would have to contact MassHighway, and then the MAAB. It is a continuing problem, I agree with you on that. The courthouse is an example.
Jean: The ADA applied to everyone so…what are they getting away with?
Jack: They keep telling us, “Our architects know what they’re doing! Our contractors know what they’re doing!”
Tom: They knew even from the prints that the hydrant was not in the right place and would need to be moved.
David Martel: It is a game the contractors play. They do the install, get paid for it, and when it’s redone, they get paid again to do it again!
Tom: From a builder’s viewpoint, they will have to do exactly what is on the plans until they get a change order.
David Martel: Common sense doesn’t seem to apply.
Jack: They told us it would not run over $160 Million, over and over, but we feel it has to be spent wisely.
Tom: I don’t find nearly the problem with DCAM [the Courthouse] so much as I have with MassHighway. Every project I have ever seen from MassHighway has not been compliant. The matter of the bikepath on the bypass road went on and one and they just ignored regulations. They fixed most of that stuff but it was a battle.
Charlie Reardon: Measure Twice, Cut Once!
Tom: Maybe some of the efforts of the Commission should go more to civil works, Dave Knowlton’s office, because most of that stuff is rolled out through the state and most people don’t see it until the contracts are already awarded. It’s trying to reinvent the wheel at that point because it is easier to fix on paper when you get involved earlier. A conversation with Dave might be productive.
David Martel: There was a house with a community program on Mason St.
Tom: Again, that’s why we have to get you guys involved earlier. We need everything to be 100% out of the gate.
Tom: My first involvement with Tom Hopkins was when the ferry came—the first ferry—and he came down to Blaney St. with me only to get stuck in a mudhole in the parking lot. We had to get him out and back to his car. Not a good first impression.
Jack: And he was an inspector then. Now he heads the agency/
Tom: He is the most…when you call him, he is an unbiased guy. He uses a wheelchair but he doesn’t throw his personal feelings in there.
Andy: What you need to do is go to their meetings and listen. You realize by the end of the meeting something that you thought would pass would not, and vice versa. It’s very educational.
Tom: It’s a reasonable group. You’d think it would be very difficult, but the board has a lot of common sense.
David Martel: There are different points of view. It’s different from working on a blueprint vs. seeing it in person.
Jack: An old project has come into the news: The Sober House. The guy who proposed that is in jail. Again.
Tom: He was jailed for a new offense, but he was already on probation so…
Jack: He was working on the property, too.
Tom: Back to the board, I’ve seen access and the MAAB go from the last thing the architects want to do, to an accepted part of the process.
David Martel: Common sense.
Tom: In a perfect world, we know we could make everything completely accessible for no money, but in an old city like ours, it needs ingenuity. Sometimes we can’t do it. But the process is there.
David Martel: Example—the Witch Museum—he [Biff Michaud] did not need to spend the money but he did so because it was very important to the visitors that come from all over. How could he deny them that?
Jack: Thanks to Tom’s influence, what some may not know, is that there is no ramp, but a graded walkway that blends into the architecture.
David Martel: The entrance to the Witch House is really nice and accessible.
Tom: I take credit for that! John Hays and I did that on the back of a piece of paper! We used a transit from 1940. Jane Guy helped us. It was something to see my name on the stamp from five years earlier when we finally built it.
David Martel: It’s really fantastic. I took my daughter there.
Tom: The Witch Museum is a funny story. We were on the sidewalk discussing it when a big lightning storm came through. We were out of there very quickly.
Jack: I’ve also got to bring to light a colleague, Tom McGrath; when he doesn’t know something he will research it.
Tom: Tom’s a registered architect, and a great person to work with.
David Martel: Common sense. Blueprints don’t substitute for seeing it there.
Tom: We don’t know everything. We bring in specialists.
David Martel: I have heard from people doing community access training, what an accessible city we have.
An idea I’ve been trying to get to Jennifer Bell: A woman came to me saying that she didn’t know how to get from one part of downtown to the other in her wheelchair. I had the thought of putting down blue lines on a printed map showing paths of access. A lot of visitors with disabilities need to know where the access and the curb cuts are.
Lisa Camaratta:
David Martel: I’ve been trying to get to the GIS guy. I’m willing to walk it and do a pencil map, while it’s still nice out.
David Tracht: Any questions for Tom?
Tom: We talked about the Courthouse.
Charlie Reardon: I went to The Great Escape. The walk up the hill to the entrance is too steep.
Tom: We and the developer were originally planning on a drop-off spot there. But the state had other uses for the space.
Tom: Technically, there is no parking at the restaurant at all. But if they are using the space for parking then there does need to be HP spacing there.
Charlie Reardon: There is no lighting in the area. I parked at the Almy’s lot [current one hour lot]. I walked to the old Jail lot—it is for condos. I had to walk out to the sidewalk. There is no railing, and no signage at the restaurant.
Tom: The architects are not done with signage at the restaurant. There’ll be another battle with that.
David Martel: Signage for the new elevator at City Hall?
Tom: It’s probably not done but the planner, Natalie, has talked with us. The signage is before the SRA. We want a sign on the Goldberg building as it would have much better visibility from the street. She is going to contact Goldberg.
David Martel: The elevator really fits the area and the architecture there.
Tom: It is improved. I went to the original variance meeting about the third floor that we wanted to exclude [it is not a public space]. The original plan had a ramp pushed further towards the front of the building but our new plan did not and it is a big improvement.
David Moisan: I noted that and I noted that when I walked through the elevator to shoot my video. The elevator had two doors, which you don’t see outside of hospitals or old buildings. Did it make a large difference in the cost? It looked and worked great. But you think by reflex, wheelchairs mean ramps.
Tom: Yes there was a cost difference. I didn’t do the original design but it was a more utilitarian elevator with a ramp for $100,000. This one was close to double that. But you got to realize the original was six or seven years ago. The results I thought were worth it.
David Moisan: Working in public construction, you must get defensive with people saying why you spent the money. It’s a great design. It’s just unusual to see it outside a hospital which has a lot of elevators that need the extra doors for special purposes. And it seems unusual that you would not advocate for ramps.
Tom: I think getting rid of ramps is the way to go. The maintenance, the snow and ice, shoveling and the appearance
David Moisan: It’s just the first I heard of it. A lot of people would build something makeshift out of wood. Never heard it in my 3-1/2 years.
Tom: The cost of the elevator technology has been coming down. With today’s hydraulics it is no big deal to have the extra stop. Years ago It would have been very expensive. Architects have been looking at this and keeping pace. I think it came out great.
Lisa Camaratta: I saw the video. Was it yours?
David Moisan: Yes. I aired the video on SATV and put two segments on YouTube. One segment has the ceremony and the other is the walkthrough I did. I thought more people would want to see video of the elevator.
Lisa: I think people would like to see the ceremony, particularly the part about the “Whirlybird” [the old chair lift].
David Tracht: Tom, while you’re here, on The Great Escape, Jack had a problem.
Jack Harris: Charlie told me there was a problem with the knobs on the sink.
Charlie: The knobs turn towards the wall. Also, the tilework isn’t that good.
David Tracht: I went on a tour in the old building. The walls were 24-inches thick and no electricity.
Tom: The cell structure was very impressive. The roof was supported by the cell structures. They had to support it as they demolished the cells. Glad I wasn’t around to do that.
Charlie: David Moisan has a video.
David Moisan: I watched them demolish the cells. They put up steel beams to reinforce them. No accidents which speaks for itself. I wish I noted these things when I was at the restaurant a few months ago. These were the door knobs? The sink?
Charlie: The door knobs were fine, it was the sink water knobs.
David Martel: The church at the courthouse was moved. Very impressive.
Tom: That was not cost effective at all.
David Martel: It was on the Discovery Channel.
Tom: Any unreinforced brick building is a nightmare to move. The seismic codes require them to brace the building which they did.
David Martel: There were no cracks. Very impressive.
David Moisan: I did the “last” official film of the Jail. I don’t at all count the videos on YouTube that have people saying they looked for ghosts in the building. I hate them. It still airs on SATV once in a while.
David Tracht: What about the Adriatic?
Jack Harris: There was a hearing on this. The board had a suggestion of their own which they sent back to the architect. There’ll be a little bit of revision to the plans and they will put in the second stall. This will require some imagination, but one person on the board is an architect who came up with the idea.
Tom: I talked to them about that. The same architect [on Adriatic] did 10 Federal. If they made the small dimensional change and filed it, they would not have to file again, and it would most likely be approved.
Jack Harris: Part of the variance was to add a lavatory [in the women’s room]. The concern has always been around occupancy. Charlie ran into this at The Great Escape. There needs to be 36-inch clearance around the tables and corridors at all times. It’s often reduced, not intentionally, but because no one keeps an eye to this.
Jack: People can take advantage of this, so we need to watch this.
Tom: I agree. Restaurateurs focus on getting the people in and getting the food to the table and don’t pay attention. The aisles get filled because people just don’t pay attention to this.
David Martel: A problem we have is service animals are allowed in restaurants—they have more rights than we do—but owners aren’t aware of that.
Lisa: Andy, what is your dog’s name?
Andy: Lukas, but he hasn’t been taking to it. His foster name was Shubert.
Andy: I notice, after walking down the street with Elliot, then walking with a cane [after Elliot passed away], that people respect a dog but not a cane. People pull around you at will with a cane. But with the dog, people make way for you. It’s amazing. With a guide dog, standing in place for 10 seconds, people will ask if you’re ok. In my neighborhood, one person came up to me and asked if I was lost, after I took the dog across the street and back. I’m training him! It’s part of his obedience training!
Andy: People definitely respect you more with a dog.
David Martel: We thought, with a food license, there would be more training on service animals in a restaurant.
Tom: I’m not aware of any incidents like this in Salem.
David Tracht: A Dunkin Donuts on the South Shore. A woman was refused service.
Andy: The only incident we have known about recently was at that café on Derby St. [Jaho]. I was really surprised recently to come across a parent and her kid when he told her not to touch the dog, he was working, etc. I was amazed. Peabody, was a little difference. Is it the seacoast? Or the work we have done?
Charlie: He’s gone around to the schools. Those kids grow up.
Andy: Boston has a lot of things going on. They have National Braille Press, their own disability commission, but they have a heck of a lot more problems than we have here. Salem is so informed with disability issues. It’s just incredible.
David Martel: We’re on TV and that is a big part of it.
Charlie: I get told “I saw you on TV!” all the time.
David Martel: The demos we put on have been very useful. I get asked when the next demonstration will be on.
Updates:
David Martel: We talked about the Courthouse hydrant already.
Jack Harris: I will give it until Friday then I will file a complaint.
Tom: Tom Hopkins should hear about it.
David Tracht: We talked about the City Hall elevator. The Mayor asked me what words I had. It just came out: “Access for All”. Removing barriers for everyone.
David Martel: Especially with open meeting laws.
Project Lifesaver
Andy: Project Lifesaver is ongoing. We’re having more people requesting services, though it’s been slow to develop. Part of the reason is, there are a couple different components. One is Project Lifesaver itself which Salem has signed on to, but then Capt. Jodoin has retired and Dennis King has taken charge of this. Project Lifesaver and LoJack are the same company, they’ve merged. Until Salem knows who will take care of the search and rescue, it will probably be called “LoJack Safety Net” instead of Project Lifesaver.
Andy: I haven’t wanted to promote this more until I know what is going on. As I’ve said many times, what is LoJack for cars, this is for people. Same thing. But there are a lot of people who need the service and as the president of the Friends of the Council on Aging, I was able to get funding for seniors who could not afford it. But that only covers people over 60.
We need funding for younger people with disabilities who need the service and there will be many who cannot afford it. There are many families that need to go to work and leave their loved ones behind. Like latchkey kids. They have family members that have the tendency to wander—autism, all kinds of things. Project Lifesaver or LoJack SafetyNet can solve these problems.
Two months ago there was a child who left his home and whose parents called the police. By coincidence, Conrad Prosniewski knew this child loved the water, and he was in South Salem so he found the child very quickly. But not everybody is lucky.
I attended a meeting of the Triad group and Chief Tucker was there; he mentioned a missing person on the North Shore who was not so fortunately—the person expired and was found in someone’s back yard. This program will save lives. The Commission needs to find funding and sponsorship, perhaps to fund one person for a year. We need to get donations from companies and businesses. There are a lot of people out there and I know some are not applying because they cannot afford it.
Charlie: What if Joe Schmoe had a donation? Who would he contact?
Andy: Dennis King is the person to contact. The Salem PD is in charge of the whole thing. People who apply for the program need to be eligible and not everyone is eligible to wear that bracelet. My dog got lost once, but I don’t get into the program! If people aren’t sure, if you have a family member you are concerned about who has wandered off without knowing why, they probably are eligible.
David Tracht: I’ll stop you there and bring in Lisa to talk about this. We have some money in our budget and we wanted to see if we could divert some to this.
Lisa Camaratta: Actually, when you first emailed me, you were talking about buying supplies. As you may or may not know, you are under the Human Resources department and you have a budget of $300 for supplies and such. The funding would come from there. You inquired if this could be used for Project Lifesaver. I wasn’t sure where you were headed—the line item was specifically $300 and that was all there was.
It sounds like you got people who need the service who can’t afford it. I don’t know our ability to do this, but I will look into this—we’ll have to do this offline.
David Tracht: There is a screening.
Lisa: Is the Fire Dept. involved?
Andy: Not sure at this point. If a call is made for search and rescue it will be done through Salem PD.
David Martel: The last time this happened there was a reverse 911 call. It was warm out, and the man was found in his neighborhood.
Andy: First year is $459, including $99 setup fee, and $30/mo., after that. Very much like the Lifeline program. $8 out of that fee goes back to the police.
David Martel: They are putting GPS in kid’s backpacks and that is very similar.
Andy: The designated contact is Dennis King. Someone from the PD will change the battery of the bracelet every month.
David Martel: Before you leave, I was hoping to get through this, but we wanted to do something special: A lot of families with disabilities will not have a Thanksgiving—is there something we can do?
Andy: Friends of the Council on Aging gives out a dinner. Some people cannot go out for dinner for whatever reason so what we do is give two complete turkey dinners to families. The Council on Aging picks them and we don’t know who it is.
This year, on behalf of the Commission, I am donating a complete turkey dinner to a person with disabilities. I need your help to find that person. There is a person at the senior center that does have family with disabilities but I have committed to families there already. It has to be someone who’s disabled.
David Martel: Tavern on the Square is having its dinner again this year.
David Tracht: The Commission is very grateful to you for stepping forward.
Andy: Whoever nominates the family I ask that he or she deliver the meal. This can feed 10 people easily. Can I do this one thing quick?
David Tracht: Sure.
Andy's Corner:~ demo on audible level and audible tape measure
Andy: This is my printed handout, in Braille. You can figure it out!
Tom, something you know: This is an audible level. [beeps] This is great for measuring, leveling, picture frames, things that aren’t too big. There are bigger ones if you are doing a deck.
This beeps if it’s level. [beeps] The table is not level [holds level off balance.] [beeps]]\
This is made by Zircon. It’s visual, somewhat, I could not tell. You can get this at blindmicemart.com.
This device here, is a five-foot tape measure. I’m going to get killed getting it out. This is a five-foot measure. Every foot has two small eyelets and every inch has a large eyelet and every quarter inch has a small eyelets. You could use it for your waistline—that’s basically what it’s used for. The eyelets give a bigger size—I have 36 but it shows me at 40. It is $8 at maxiaids.com or blindmicemart.
I don’t get anything from blindmicemart, nothing, but they do take some of their proceeds to benefit other blind programs.
They also have, on their website, “Cooking in the Dark”, a weekly podcast with Cheryl King of the National Braille Press. What they do is put on a cooking show especially for the blind. They do sell cooking instruments for the blind.
This other device is a talking tape measure. [machine reading off measurements] You can have it include the case in the measurement, like a regular tape measure, or not. It’ll measure millimeters, centimeters, meters, feet and inches. You pull it out…
You probably can’t hear this [machine reads “2 feet….”]
Tom: That’s very good
Andy: Very good…for me!
Andy: It does have memory, for those who can’t remember, it does do feet and inches if you can’t do metric. This guy here is $90. It is not cheap. But, again, it does give you measurements. Now, before anyone puts out the money for this, if they want to contact me, physically touch it, try it out, you can contact me at 978-745-4289, my home phone. There are Braille yardsticks that are like the tape measure, same as you would find in a hardware store. There’s a stainless steel ruler you can use. Now, anybody who’s listening who knows family members or friends that are newly blind that need some information on how to get things to be modified, they can contact me. I have a lot of resources. We can talk it over. Again I don’t make any money off this.
It’s a service.
All the stuff is available from Maxi-Aids in New York but there are other places around.
Lisa Camaratta: Andy, if we can talk about the budget, Project Lifesaver, and any purchase orders you need.
Andy: I’m aware if we don’t use it we can lose it. We need to also talk to Bob Lutts. If we could get just a little bit of money; there won’t be a ton of people on the program but if we get them on Project Lifesaver, they will be alive one day. The success rate of this program is 100%. The time of recovery is 30 minutes or less. Salem’s not the only community in the area that has the program but I want Salem to prevail in this. Someone’s going to die. It’s simple. It’s getting cold out.
David Tracht: Thank you very much, Andy. Happy Thanksgiving, everybody.
Next Meeting~
Next Meeting~~ December 21, 2010
Guest:~ Don Armell~~ "Foster Parenting a guide dog"
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